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--- transcripts:alec-dyki-interview-transcript [2025/01/05 00:28] – Formatowanie tekstu wg. przyjętej konwencji Wojtek
+++ transcripts:alec-dyki-interview-transcript [2025/02/23 22:39] (current) – ↷ Links adapted because of a move operation Wojtek
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-====== Transcript of the interview with Alec Dyki ======
+====== Alec Dyki interview transcript ======
-This is a full text transcript of [[:stories:pfsl:alec-dyki-interview]] with polish summaries every paragraph.
+This is a full text transcript of [[stories:pfsl:alec-dyki]].
+  Oral history recording transcript
+  Duration: 1 hour 04 minutes
+  ----
+  Chapters
+Family Roots and Wartime Turmoil
+Polish School and Scouting
+Football and Community Life
+Family Traditions and Charity Work
+Polish Identity and Heritage
+Childhood Memories and Conclusion
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-==== Wprowadzenie do rozmowy ====
+===== 01 Family Roots and Wartime Turmoil =====
 🕑 //00:00:00//
@@ Line 17: / Line 27: @@
 **BF**: I would like to ask you for the beginnings. I know that your parents settled in England after the war and I would like to ask you what happened that they had to come to this country?
-==== Historia rodziny i droga do Anglii ====
 🕑 //00:00:38//
 **AD**: Well, my mother came from Równe, my father came from Lwów and my mother was sent to near Arkhangelsk, Podniewice I think it was, in northern Russia. My father was a Polish officer and I think he ended up initially as a German prisoner of war. And I think that was in Poznan. He was then sent to a Russian prison camp and I think that was Lwów or Przemyśl and then, somewhere just beyond Moscow, I can't remember the name of it. So he was in three prisoner of war camps, but the last one was well inside Russia. After that, when the amnesty happens, my mother and her family were travelling from the north through Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan, Persia, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, and she eventually ended up in a place called Witley in Surrey, which used to be a Canadian base for their air force, I think, or their army. Meanwhile, my father took a similar journey after they released him and he joined the Anders Army and he became a sapper. And I think he built bridges near the camps in, possibly, Persia, and then eventually he ended up in Monte Cassino and a couple of other places, in Bologna, possibly. And he also ended up in Witley in Surrey, which is a very small village and by sheer coincidence my daughter lives there now, you know, literally maybe a mile away from where the camp was, which is a very strange coincidence. So everything's revolved and came back to the beginning.
-==== Dzieciństwo i życie w Londynie ====
 🕑 //00:03:23//
@@ Line 31: / Line 37: @@
 **BF**: So you stayed in Victoria till which year and what happened after?
-==== Przeprowadzki i życie w różnych dzielnicach ====
 🕑 //00:04:17//
@@ Line 38: / Line 42: @@
 **AD**: I think about 1955. So I'm five years old and we moved to Brixton and he bought a house there, and now there was more of a Polish community in the area. At the same time I went to my first school and I couldn't speak English, [laughter] which was... I think that was quite common amongst the Polish communities. At that age you learn another language easily. It's not a problem. And so, yeah, we moved there approximately 1955 and we stayed there till 1962. And we then moved to Streatham, where I stayed until I got married in 1972. So those were my early years. But the community was in Clapham. There was an English church, or Irish church, St Mary's in Clapham. The family would go there every Sunday and eventually I think there was… The Poles bought their own church in Balham, but that was many, many years later, but there was also a church inside Clapham College and sometimes we would go there for, you know, for ten o'clock, because St. Mary's was one o'clock and that was too late, so my age group wanted to go early. So, yeah, those were the beginnings anyway.
-**BF**: So how was it like to grow up in the community with so many Polish people surrounding you?
+  Password access wall
-==== Życie w polskiej społeczności ====
-🕑 //00:06:15//
-**AD**: Well, I never took much notice. I didn't feel any difference. Occasionally at school, you know, people would laugh, you know, sort of call you names and things, but it didn't matter. You know, children were children and you just laughed things off. But some...It was okay, it was different to, you know, my neighbours, because weekends life was very different to what their life was. On a Saturday morning I would go to Polish school. My English friends would go to the cinema, so I did feel I was missing out there, that was a bad point.
-**BF**: So were you rebellious, like you were saying that you don't want to go there, for example?
-==== Polskie szkoły, zajęcia i bunt ====
-🕑 //00:07:16//
-**AD**: Yes, to a point. I think the Polish school is from, say, nine o'clock to one o'clock and then the parents would pick you up. But my parents signed me up for a Polish folk dancing, which started after the school. And I suppose I was about seven years old and I didn't like this. And there was a Polish girl who lived about 50 metres from us and she didn't want to stay. So one day we decided, “Oh, we'll walk home”. And we got told off [laughter] because it was about three miles away from Clapham, Nightingale Lane, to walk to Brixton. So we got seriously told off. [laughter]
-**BF**: That's great. So can you tell me more details about, first of all, the school? Where was it exactly? Where was it placed then? How was it called and about this folk group, maybe you remember the name?
-🕑 //00:08:25//
-**AD**: Yeah, the Polish school was in Nightingale Lane, Clapham South, which I think the name was... Arciszewska, pani Arciszewska and her husband. I think her husband was quite a well-known figure, if I'm not mistaken, but I didn't know that, you know, I never met him. I think she was like the headmistress and quite, quite a serious woman. [laughter] She commanded respect. [laughter]
-**BF**: Did you make any good friendships those days at school?
-==== Kontakty i przyjaźnie ze szkoły ====
-🕑 //00:09:05//
-**AD**: Yes. Oh, yeah. To this day. Well, we had the first Holy Communion there. And to this day, there's a friend of mine, Wacek Schultz. I still see him to this day. Also from the school, there was Polish Scouts and Cubs, which... I enjoyed the Cubs very much. I joined the Scouts. And then, because 1963, my father died, I was still in the Scouts and shortly after that someone started a Polish football team. And I got very interested in that. I got involved in that, but the leader of the Scout troop didn't like it. And for some reason, he thought it was conflicting, me being in the Scouts and in this football team, so he gave me an ultimatum, sadly. I chose football and so that was the end of seeing quite a lot of friends. It was regrettable, but... it was the right choice, unfortunately.
-**BF**: So you preferred football to being a Scout?
-**AD**: Oh, yes. [laughter]
-**BF**: You were this kind of sportish boy that was very active and...
-**AD**: Yeah, yeah, yeah...
-**BF**: That's great. Before we go back to the football club, I wanted to also ask about this church and because I imagine a little bit like it’s now and I wanted to ask you, how did it look like, the social life after mass? So what did you do? And was it that Polish mass, how did you like it, how did you like it after? And if you can tell me more about it?
-==== Wspomnienia związane z kościołem i spotkaniami po mszy ====
-🕑 //00:11:17//
-**AD**: Yeah. The Polish mass at St. Mary's, they had a forecourt outside, so after the mass no one would go home. You know, my parents would just stay there and talk to people. It was like a social club, you know, and people would stand there talking for half an hour. And I can't remember when they actually bought the church in Balham. I can't remember the year now, but that changed things quite differently, you know, but, yeah, I think they also bought a club in Balham, the White Eagle Club. I think that was before they bought the church, so people would start going there as well.
-**BF**: So tell me more about this club since they bought this church and the club - how did that look like after the mass for you?
-🕑 //00:12:29//
-**AD**: I can't remember going to the Polish church in Balham. I can't remember that. I can remember going to the 10 o'clock mass in Clapham College because we used to leave as soon as that finished and we would go off and play football, etc., you know, but I can't remember actually going to the church in Balham. My mother always used to go, of course, and my stepfather. She married again in 1966. And my stepfather, he actually renovated the stations of the cross for the church, he was an artist. So that was the sort of thing he could do. Did a very good job. And I think they're still there, those stations of the cross.
-**BF**: By going to the football club that you probably remember very well, I would like you to tell me more details about it. About the name, about when it was created, when did you join it? Why did you become a member? Maybe somebody pulled you in? If you can tell me a little bit more about this.
-==== Zainteresowania sportowe i klub piłkarski ====
-🕑 //00:13:47//
-**AD**: Yes. Approximately 1964, I think, there were two twins, Siwecki. Roman and Bogdan Siwecki, I think, and they were in the Scouts as well, siódemka. I think they began the football team with a man called Zagórski, Bruno Zagórski. He was like a manager, he helped run things. And I think it probably started through Gmina, they possibly funded it. There was another team before Grunwald called Młodzi. They were probably 10 to 20 years older than my age group, and I think we became like the juniors, if you like. So this team started about 1964 and I was probably the youngest member. And I found it difficult. The others were two years, three years, four years older, but approximately 1965 they started a second Grunwald, for my age group. And Bruno Zagórski asked me to find, you know, my friends to join. So I took that on. I found friends at school where we had two or three English friends as well who would join just to make the numbers up, you know, and there were possibly 16 of us, but every week you struggled to get 11 or 12. But yeah, those were early days, yes. And it was very good.
-**BF**: So what did you like about this club and being a football player?
-🕑 //00:16:05//
-**AD**: It creates some camaraderie. Any sports will create camaraderie, so, you know, when you see people twice a week, you feel very close to them. And to this day, I think I probably see five or six people that I used to play football with when I was 15 or 16 years old. And it's very nice to think, you know, that that’s possible. And I also instigate, instill that into my son. You know, that when you make young friends you should maintain those friendships. And yeah, it's carrying on with him like that as well.
-**BF**: Do you remember any activities that this football club was doing, any events or something?
-🕑 //00:17:03//
-**AD**: Well, we were in the… They weren't friendly matches, we were, during the winter, we played in an English league. So every Sunday we played, but during the summer, from June to August, there would be a league, sorry, a knock out competition amongst all Polish clubs from all over England, which was really nice because we would travel to the Swindon, Darby, Birmingham, Lutsen, High Whitcombe, up to Bradfield's, everywhere, you know, and you had to win to keep going, you know, but it was something everybody looked forward to because, you know, if you played away you would meet at, let's say, nine o'clock in the morning and you wouldn't get home till nine o’clock or ten o’clock at night, you know. So it's very good. Very good. Good memories there.
-**BF**: Are you still in touch with someone from that time?
-🕑 //00:18:16//
-**AD**: Well, yes, as I say, four or five of my friends I still see. Well, if we didn't have this Covid at the moment, I would definitely be seeing them every month or every second month. Yeah, yeah.
-**BF**: And you mention about the club in Balham. And, obviously, you were growing up, you became a teenager. Did you have any events for people your age those days?
-==== Codzienność w polskich klubach i spotkaniach ====
-🕑 //00:18:50//
-**AD**: Um... Well, we used to sometimes go to… I suppose we were about 15 years old. We would go to Nightingale Lane, to where the Polish school was, and some of the members of Młodzi would be there. Now, we were, say, 15 years old. They were probably 35 to 45 years old. And, you know, they used the place as a social club. They would play billiards there and drink lots of vodka and we'd go there a few times and they taught us how to drink vodka. [laughter] A very young age. [laughter] It was difficult to walk home. [laughter] So, yeah, nice occasional memories like that as well.
-**BF**: Do you remember any particular dancing party over there, perhaps?
-🕑 //00:19:55//
-**AD**: No, no. I never went there. You know, we tended to sort of congregate in different places, so I don't think I went. But there was a lot of them organised there. Yes, there were.
-**BF**: So how about the New Year's Ball? Something like that.
-🕑 //00:20:18//
-**AD**: Well, I didn't go, but my parents used to go. You know, I think they used to go to various balls from about 1958, with my dad they used to go. He died in ‘63. But then in ‘66, when my mom got remarried, he was Polish as well, so they used to go to all the events in Balham, to most of the balls. Yeah, they used to really enjoy it, very much, yeah.
-**BF**: Do you remember any other Polish places in the area, in Streatham probably, or Clapham where you lived?
-🕑 //00:21:02//
-**AD**: Well, in Streatham there was a Polish delicatessen. I think they were called Holba. I think there was one shop in Balham, near the Polish church, and I think that's still there today, but I can't remember the name of it. And of course, the White Eagle Club is still there and the Polish church is still there. Yeah, those are the few places I do remember. Nothing else springs to mind instantly.
-**BF**: Did you remember any excitement about buying any particular Polish food or something you really liked?
-🕑 //00:21:43//
-**AD**: Oh, yes, I think I prefer seeing Polish foods today than I did when I was a teenager. Because you never thought about it then. Every day you had this. When I married, I married an English girl and you didn't have these things. So now, you know, I'll go out to the delicatessen and it's more special. [laughter] Yes. I like a lot of things. Yeah, I do, I like Polish breads, kabanos, it's very nice, naleśniki. Everything. Pierogi is my favourite, and my daughter makes them for me. Really nice. With cabbage, cabbage and mushroom. [laughter] They're my favourite. I had those today.
-**BF**: That's great. When you said pierogi, cabbage and mushroom, I already think about Polish Christmas, so can you tell me something about this in your home?
-==== Tradycje świąteczne i rodzinne spotkania ====
-🕑 //00:23:01//
-**AD**: Yes, that always happened, Wigilia, Christmas Eve. I think it used to start about five o'clock, six o'clock. And there were many, many courses. A lot of them I didn't like. I didn't like the fish and a lot of things, really horrible things. [laughter] You know, the whole family used to turn up. This used to go on for probably about 15 years, very common. The whole family would come. Some of the family would travel from Birmingham and spend a few days with us, you know, and then Christmas Day, everybody would go to my uncle's house. Yeah, Boxing Day, they would come back to us and so on and so on. There, you know, they were just busy times, socially, very busy. Yeah, it’s very good.
-**BF**: So when all this family gathered together, do you remember what they were talking about at the table?
-**AD**: Not really. There's lots of singing, lots of drunken men, [laughter], so no, not really. I can’t.
-**BF**: What were they singing?
-**AD**: Oh. There were Polish Christmas carols. I can't remember. Do you want me to start singing? [laughter]
-**BF**: C’mon then! [laughter]
-**AD**: No! [laughter]
-**BF**: I will not force you, don’t worry. [laughter] Any memory from other festivities, Polish traditions you have in your memory?
-==== Historie rodzinne i anegdoty ====
-🕑 //00:25:09//
-**AD**: Well, one of the earlier memories, that's just sprung to mind... My grandfather, he was 50 years old when he came to England in 1947, but he couldn't work because of the disabilities through the war. But he spent a lot of his time doing charity work. He used to collect clothing and make packages to send back to Poland or even to Africa for the poor people. And that was his... He was very, very serious about that. He used to do that for years and years. Very, very dedicated to that. He was a very strong Catholic as well, believed in his religion. And he was serious, but my grandmother, she had a sense of humour, a very good sense of humour, and she would occasionally laugh at him, you know, just to make a joke. And I remember one day I was present and maybe one or two other members of the family were and she pretended, she said “A letter has come here. It's for you. It's come from the Pope. It's come from Rome”. She said, “What does he want? Are you going to join the church? [laughter] Are you going to become a priest?” She was trying to make a good joke out of it, we were all laughing and he was so serious and he got very, very annoyed. [laughter] Funny little memories like that. Funny memories.
-**BF**: So when you tell me about your grandfather, I'm thinking, how did you... because you were born already in England, so…
-**AD**: No, no, no, no. He was born in Poland.
-**BF**: I mean, you.
-**AD**: Oh, I was, yes.
-**BF**: You were born in England and you obviously could see the generation that was before you, the generation of your parents, even the grandfather. Do you remember any people, like your parents’ friends perhaps, that stuck in your memory for something particular, particular attitude, I don't know, a way of being. Can you tell me about these people from this generation?
-🕑 //00:28:00//
-**AD**: Well, that was one particular family. They lived in East London and it was a family called Gratosielski. My father was a friend of his in the army and my mother, by coincidence, grew up with his wife in a place called Osada Krechowiecka, just outside of Równe. So that was a coincidence because… how two couples met like that, I don't know. Yes, they spring to mind. Gratosielski was quite a war hero and his wife did a lot of things during the war. She was a couple of years older than my mother, and she used to drive the big trucks for the army. I think I met their daughter Elżunia, well, I knew her, obviously, when we were eight years old, nine years old, but for the first time I met her again approximately four years ago. And she does work for a group called Kresy Family on the internet. You probably know of them. Yeah. So that's sort of brought back things, you know, and I knew her two brothers and I met them as well for the first time after about, I don't know, 60 years. So that was very nice, very nice. And I think we went to POSK in Hammersmith, Hammersmith, a bit further west, that was the first time I ever went there, and that was about three years ago. So that was another sort of occasion. That was the most sort of... vivid memory. The girl I mentioned that we ran away from the police dancing, their family moved to Canada, so I didn't see them anymore. But there were neighbours that my parents they’d go dancing with back in the 50s, there was a family called [Żarkow, Schultz, Hobert]. Quite, quite a lot of families, those three come to mind. There's another family, Lasocki. Yes, got quite a lot of families there, so a few spring in mind.
-**BF**: Do you remember any activities, any Polish activities they participated in?
-🕑 //00:31:17//
-**AD**: Well, my father, when he was alive, he was anti getting involved in anything to do with politics, and he felt that joining certain things, like Gmina, was a little bit too political. So he didn't. He died when I was 13, so I can't really comment anymore. I was too young to understand, but after 13, my mother was involved in lots of things. But this was mainly later in life, let's say, from the year 1990 to the year 2009, she was involved at the White Eagle Club. I think there's something called the Koło Pań, which was like a club that was set up for older ladies, you know, and various things like that, she used to organise tombolas and things at the club. These would be things, functions that would be midweek, midweek, midday, or she would have people around for tea or coffee at her flat when she moved to Balham because she lived next to the Polish church and opposite the White Eagle. So she did a lot of that. She also did a lot of charity work for a place called Pruszków, which I believe is somewhere in Warsaw. She used to do a lot of charity work for them and send money there regularly to help out. I think it was a charity for orphaned children, children without parents, so she used to do a lot for that, collect money, etc., yeah, yeah.
-**BF**: So there were children in Poland.
-🕑 //00:33:36//
-**AD**: Yes, yes. Yeah. So the charity was based in Poland and she used to help a lot with that. So in a way, she took over from where my grandfather finished, you know, but obviously many, many years later, you know, this was in her later life.
-**BF**: I will go back to your football club, actually it might be not just the football club - Do you remember any other sport activities you were doing that were available in your time organised by the Polish community?
-🕑 //00:34:20//
-**AD**: Really, it wasn't in my time because in 1972 I got married and I drifted away from the Polish community, but approximately at that point I think Gmina started a rugby club, London Polish. And my cousin, Marek Skoczylas, he played for them and my friend Wacek Schultz, and then I found out one or two others, one who went to my school, Marek Dziedzic, he played for them, another guy, Pruszyński. He was in my class, he played for this rugby club. Yeah, that’s it, I can't remember any more names. [laughter]
-**BF**: Tell me more about the trainers.
-**AD**: The which?
-**BF**: About the trainers of the football club.
-**AD**: There were a couple of English guys, probably going back to about 1966, a couple of English guys, and they would train us midweek.
-**BF**: I'm surprised they were not Polish.
-🕑 //00:35:52//
-**AD**: No, because... Well, the manager was, Bruno Zagórski was Polish, but one of the English guys who played for us, his father knew someone who was a coach for Chelsea Football Club, so he introduced him. I suppose for a period of six months or nine months only these two guys would coach us, but eventually that stopped, you know, and we moved on. There were things that we were unhappy about. [laughter]
-**BF**: Does anything from the school or from the football club influence your further life?
-🕑 //00:36:48//
-**AD**: Well, only in the sense that I'm passionate about football in general. I really enjoy that. And my father was a sportsman in Poland, so he was a physical training coach. He was also involved in the Hitler Olympics in 1936 as a coach. I think he was a football coach. He was also a coach in skiing and gymnastics. And he was a teacher in general. But that, the sports, rubbed off on me, I suppose. While he was alive, the most important thing to him was not for me to do sport, but to get a good education. And [laughter] I didn't like education. [laughter]
-**BF**: Well, tell me about your education eventually.
-🕑 //00:37:59//
-**AD**: Well, I went to St Joseph's College in Beulah Hill, Norwood, sort of between Norwood and Streatham. I was there for five years. I didn't do well. I only passed O Levels, and one of them was Polish. Polish, art and English literature. The things I thought I would pass like geography, which was very strong, I failed, you know, so I went to work when I was 16 and I became a graphic artist. I suppose that was my stepfather, because he was an artist, he probably helped sort of push me in that direction, perhaps. I know my mother always pushed me, you know, [laughter] but yeah, it ended up very good. It did end up very good.
-**BF**: Alec, I would like to ask you, because I'm very curious, how do you feel about your identity and maybe you can tell me, even if there were changes in stages of your life? You know, I would like to know, because it was like little Poland you were brought up in, but then you were coming out from it. So can you tell me more about that?
-==== Tożsamość i poczucie narodowe ====
-🕑 //00:39:32//
-**AD**: That's interesting, yeah. I suppose the pressures when you were young were... My mother would always tell me about, you know, “This happened and that happened during the war” and, you know, when they were growing up, etc. “No, I'm not interested”, you know, “You've told me this before and I'm not interested”, but it stuck. I did remember. In a way, I rebelled against many things, but quietly, I wouldn't tell her, but quietly, I was very proud of what I was. I didn't want to tell [laughter] her because, you know, she just kept on and on and on [laughter] like parents do. So, yeah, there was that sort of transition. But, oh, no, I'm very proud of it. How long ago... It must be about six, seven years ago, after my mother died, my cousin in Birmingham started to write a book, “Midnight Train to Siberia”, and that was about the family, you know, their problems, about travelling to Gulag and then to the Middle East and then making their way to England, and I helped her with that. And that was very good. You know, I had the time to do it. And eventually, I think eventually we applied for the Siberian Cross for my mother and her sister, Krzyż Zesłańców, and I think we were presented with those in 2018, two or three years ago in the Polish embassy here in London and that's a very proud moment. Very good. Yeah, quite a few members of the family attended on the day. All my age, my cousins and my son, and it was a very good day. I'm proud of who I am.
-**BF**: So if somebody were to ask you what nationality do you feel like, deeply inside your heart?
-**AD**: Polish.
-**BF**: Can you tell me this in a full sentence?
-**AD**: If someone asks me what nationality I am, I always say I'm Polish.
-**BF**: That's great. Yeah, amazing. Are there any any still words, Polish words or expressions that you would use if you referred to Polish events or situations or traditions? That you would not use English, but you will use Polish expressions or words, in daily life?
-**AD**: I'm not sure what you mean exactly.
-**BF**: Like, for example, you tell a story to someone about what happened in Polish community and instead of using English words, you would name certain things in Polish words, using Polish expressions.
-**AD**: Yes, I suppose I would, but nothing comes to mind, you know, because I can think in English and I can also think in Polish. And, you know, you can just switch these things around, but no, nothing comes to mind.
-**BF**: OK, do you have anything in memory like Polish songs that sometimes would come back to you? I will not ask you to sing.
-**AD**: [laughter] Oh, dear. I can't remember the names, but there were Christmas carols, there were hymns in church, the Polish national anthem. I can't remember off-hand.
-**BF**: If you gather for Christmas nowadays, do you gather with a Polish family?
-🕑 //00:44:27//
-**AD**: Christmas Eve we go to my cousin's in Beckenham. There are two twin sisters, Ewa and Ania Skoczylas, and for the last two or three or four years, we've been going there, you know, if we can. And that's very nice, you know. And one of my cousins who... she married someone from Holland, she tries to come and well. And I think that their brother, he lives in Warsaw, just outside Warsaw. He turned up I think last year. So, yeah, Christmas Eve, yes, but that would be a sort of for my age group, my cousins. I wouldn't expect my children to come. You know, I've seen my children on Christmas Day and we go to their house now. [laughter] We do nothing. [laughter]
-**BF**: Do they, do you celebrate Christmas in Polish way, Christmas Eve?
-🕑 //00:45:40//
-**AD**: Yes, yes, they do try. You know, they have six or seven servings. Not the full 12 or 14. We do have alcohol, [laughter] which you're not supposed to have on Christmas Eve [laughter], and no meat.
-**BF**: Do you say wishes to each other?
-**AD**: Oh, yes. Wesołych Świąt, yeah. And breaking opłatek. So you're getting me to use these Polish words now [laughter] because it's coming naturally. [laughter]
-**BF**: Yes, great. Is there anything else you would like to tell me, like any story, funny story you remember from your school, perhaps Polish school or a club or maybe the best match you remember when you were playing...
-**AD**: [laughter]
-**BF**: … or things like that?
-🕑 //00:46:43//
-**AD**: Well, yeah, there was just one occasion we travelled to Swindon, we played the Polish team there, called Błyskawica. It's in the summer and it's very, very hot and. So it's very exhilarating. Somehow you get this passion to do as well as you possibly can. Even in circumstances where it's hot and the opposition were... They were from the countryside, you know, they were big, big, much bigger than us, we were from London. And we beat them, an extremely good team they had, and we beat them. That sticks in your memory because you had to really do something special against the very special opposition. So that stuck in my mind. We did win things in the English leagues. We won the cup and we won a few leagues. Yeah, yes, quite a few things, but that particular thing stuck in our minds, quite a few of us. You know, we still talk about that. [laughter]
-**BF**: When you meet your colleagues from school, what do you talk about?
-🕑 //00:48:19//
-**AD**: Old days like that, or, you know, getting into trouble at school [laughter]. Things like that, you know, normal things, very, very normal things. Everyday things.
-**BF**: Do you bring back sometimes a memory from school?
-**AD**: Oh, all of the time. All the time. Yeah, yeah.
-**BF**: Tell me one, please.
-🕑 //00:48:42//
-**AD**: [laughter] From school? [laughter] There was a cross country once. You know, you run about six miles, and we used to do this once a week. And me and two or three other friends, we hated it, and 100 people used to do this run and three or four of us would stay at the back and halfway through, we’d sit down, have a cigarette somewhere, and then because you go around, and a long distance, the ones at the front would start running, so we'd be finishing our cigarette by then. We'd let them go past, then we'd finish our cigarette and join in [laughter] and we'd end up coming, you know, not too far from the back, despite that. But then one of my friends, he was a very good cross country runner. He was always in the top three or four, and one day he said to me, “You're going to come with me this time, you're going to do this”, and he forced me and I had to keep up with him and because of him, he taught me what “mind over matter” was, and I came about sixth or seventh. Normally I'd be about 80th or 90th. And everybody talked about this, [laughter] “Dyki came eight! This is unbelievable!” No one believed it [laughter] because they all knew we used to sort of stop and have a cigarette. [laughter] Funny, good, funny memories from childhood there, you know.
-**BF**: Is there anything you're missing from those days?
-🕑 //00:50:54//
-**AD**: Yes, because you're not as mobile as you were then, so you miss that. You know, you wish you could do those things. I still play tennis. I play golf. But I couldn't play football today. And I would desperately miss that. Definitely, yeah, yeah. And also, you know, a few people that you just lost total contact with and sometimes you think it would be nice, “What happened to them?”, you know, and you think about that you do miss that.
-**BF**: Do you think the Polish community, which we have now in London, South London, is different than the Polish community in your old time, of your young age?
-🕑 //00:51:50//
-**AD**: It probably isn't, but I have very little to do with the Polish community of today. I don't really see it. But what little I have seen, especially on the internet, I think there is a good community. I've seen Polish schools open up in places that I thought, “This didn't exist when I was young”. And it's... it's different, but I think it's a good community. I think it's a bigger community. I think they're organised better. They've got more sports and more for children, from what I can see. So that's just my opinion from the outside looking in, you know, but it does look very well organised. So I don't know about, you know, during the week, for adults, I don't know. It's a larger community for sure, definitely.
-**BF**: Is there anything that I didn't ask you and you would like to tell me?
-**AD**: [laughter] Oh, dear. Nothing springs to mind. I can't think of anything, no.
-**BF**: Ok, I actually, yeah, I think I didn't ask you much, maybe I didn't ask you about Scouts, but you said you left quite early...
-**AD**: Yeah, I was about 14 years old, yeah. That was unfortunate.
-**BF**: Do you remember, like, being quite patriotic those days?
-🕑 //00:53:56//
-**AD**: I think I suppose I must have been, yeah. You know, otherwise you wouldn't join into these things, but I enjoyed it all. It was very different. Actually there was another good memory, actually. I suppose about maybe I was 12 years old, 1962. There was a place, Henley on Thames, there was a Polish school there run by a brotherhood, Polish priests. I can't remember, Ojce Mariany? Have you heard of of them?
-**BF**: Marianie, yes.
-**AD**: Yes, yeah, and it was a full time school and my cousin, Marek Skoczylas, went there for one or two years, as a boarder, but when school finished during August, they’d opened it up as a summer camp and I went there for one summer. And we could swim in the River Thames and fantastic things, you know, things that you wouldn't be allowed to do that, you know, now. You know, someone might worry that you might drown or something in those days you could do things like that, you just get in the Thames and swim. That was another memory there from football. We would play a lot of football there and one day I think we were in the dormitories upstairs and I hit my leg on the underside of an iron bed. And it caused a big dent in my leg and they had to call my parents. My parents came and drove me back to Camberwell, to the hospital, and they had to attend. And I remember the doctor kept getting a needle and putting this needle into the hole in my leg. “Can you feel anything?” I said, “No, no”. And my father nearly fainted [laughter] and I couldn't feel it because it was the muscle. So anyway, they just dressed it up and said, “Well, you can't play football for six weeks at least”. And so they said, “Well, can he go back to this camp, summer camp?”. “Yeah, but make sure he doesn't do any football or anything, six weeks”. So they drove me back and all my friends were on the football pitch and I was waving my parents off. They were going home now. As soon as the car disappeared, I joined in and played football. [laughter] And my leg was no worse off. [laughter] So don't take the doctor's advice. [laughter] Yeah, very nice memories of growing up, very nice memories.
-**BF**: Any Polish girls in the Polish community?
-🕑 //00:57:21//
-**AD**: No, because I didn't get involved in the dances and things like that, I'd go off with my English friends. So my only contact with the Polish community ended up being with regards to football. And I suppose this is, what, 1964 to 1972. So that was my only contact, so I didn't see anyone really. I think one or two of my friends married Polish girls, but no.
-**BF**: That's great. So thank you very much for all this you told me. I feel like being with you in those days.
-**AD**: [laughter] Actually, you know, I can't believe this has been an hour and a quarter already.
-**BF**: Yes, so we still have time, if you remember anything from Polish community. Any activities of your parents, friends, perhaps, and, you know, anything comes to mind? Any extra charity work? You already mentioned it. But if you remember something particular you can tell me.
-**AD**: Oh, dear, dear, dear… I should have made notes before this, shouldn’t I? [laughter] No, I just can't remember anymore.
-**BF**: It's OK, don't worry. I could ask you better questions then you would remember. [laughter]
-🕑 //00:59:13//
-**AD**: Maybe I've got Alzheimer's already. [laughter] I think my mother got interviewed. I think she... Oh, you interviewed my mother, didn’t you? That's right, yeah, yeah. And my auntie in Birmingham, she did an interview as well about six years ago, but unfortunately for her it was too late. She couldn't remember a lot of things, you know, about past things. And fortunately, my cousin, when she was writing that book, fortunately, she got that information off her a few years before. So we're very lucky there, but when my auntie did the interview, it wasn't as good as it should have been because she had a hell of a lot of information that was actually put into the book, so that was quite unfortunate. She's still alive today. She's still alive, yeah, yeah.
-**BF**: Do you have children, Alec?
-**AD**: I've got two, yeah. My son lives next door. And as I said, my daughter lives in Witley, which was the beginnings of everything in England back in 1947.
-**BF**: Are they curious about their Polish or have Polish roots?
-==== Relacje z dziećmi i ich zainteresowanie polskimi korzeniami ====
-🕑 //01:00:55//
-**AD**: Yes, my daughter would like to get Polish citizenship and Polish passport, and of course, my son as well. So I'm looking into it. Solicitors want too much money. [laughter] And the problem is it's difficult because of both... Well, I can find a lot of information from my mother, but because I was born in 1950, they tell me that they want for me to prove my father's citizenship, not my mother's, and that's very difficult because it has to come from Lwów and, you know, it's almost impossible, and that's what they want. Too much money. So I'm looking at trying other ways of finding it, [laughter] but I'd like to do it for them, you know, to get the citizenship just as a status symbol.
-**BF**: So why is it important for them?
-🕑 //01:02:11//
-**AD**: It's possibly a status symbol, again, you know. You… It’s things you don't ask them, you know, like like I didn't ask my mother, going back to what we spoke about, maybe something like that, you know. They sort of pretend that we're not really interested and then suddenly something comes to the foreground, and you think, “They are interested”. [laughter] Yeah.
-**BF**: Do they go to Poland sometimes?
-🕑 //01:02:41//
-**AD**: No, I haven't been since 1969 and I was talking about this with my cousin, who lives in Warsaw last Sunday, and he is keen to try and visit the area, the gulag where our families were, this is Poldniewica, which is maybe 1500 kilometres north east of Moscow in the direction of Arkhangelsk. And he suggested, “Would I like to go?”. So I'd be interested. I would be interested, just to see it in a. They haven't been, but my daughter's husband has often said to me, “Oh, we'll take you to Poland because we'd like to go”. So it's on the agenda, but at the moment we can't go anywhere, can we? Everything's out of bounds.
-==== Zakończenie wywiadu ====
-**BF**: OK, Alec, thank you so much. Everything you said was so interesting and I'm very grateful for this time.
-**AD**: It's a pleasure.
-**BF**: I hope one day we speak again and you tell me how was your visit in Poland. [laughter]
-**AD**: Well, one day perhaps we will go to the White Eagle Club...
-**BF**: [laughter] Ok, that’s a great idea.
-**AD**: … and have a drink.
-**BF**: We’ll have a coffee together, that’s great. [laughter]
-**AD**: Oh, something more than coffee! [laughter]
-**BF**: Maybe more, yes. Maybe Polish pierogi! [laughter]
-**AD**: Oh, yes. [laughter]